STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

SATYAPAUL · General Sponsor Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 127

只剩下是RARA的解释。g是谁oing to check the quality of material being used.what will be the experience of engineer who is going to certify the quality of work.This RARA LAW IS NOT CLEAR. REGARDS SP On Mon, 15 May 2017 17:43:07 +0530 "sangeeta_wij" wrote > Dear Alpa > I think the topic picked up by SEFI is indeed very relevant and you have given great pointers for a start. In addition to what you’ve mentioned, there are a few more points that I would like to raise: > � There is no mention of what is a mandate for the builder/structural engineer/Peer reviewer when the provisions of relevant BIS Codes undergo major revisions.(like 13920 and 1893 and NDMA Hospital Guidelines, and not to forget the Draft of 10936 for Tall Buildings, covering anything between 45m and 250 metres high)These changes are sometimes very significant and may require a complete review/revamp of the structural system/philosophy. The Act must acknowledge the need to have a clear cut legal mandate , in coordination with other Govt agencies , BIS etc. > � The next major issue , as raised by you is that the Developer cannot change the structural design/drawings after the Project gets registered in RERA.If implemented correctly, it will surely provide a much needed relief to structural consultants, who are often redesigning the Penthouse floors on 33rd and above while the building is under construction at 32nd floor. My point here is that Structural analysis and design, even if completed before approval stage, is never submitted to our Local authorities,and, I may say this at the risk of stirring a hornet’s nest, even if they have a set of analysis and design/drawings they may not have the wherewithal to detect a change! > � Another important point to be considered is, what happens in the unfortunate case of a building collapse; the hapless customers, who survive this disaster may never be able to fight a legal battle for a new flat or unite and get a new building constructed( go through the complete procedure of hiring a Consultant, getting local authority approvals, and getting the construction done through a contractor).In such a scenario, who decides the liabilities that the Structural Engineer must face . > > > > > Best Regards > Sangeeta Wij > Managing Partner > SD Engineering Consultants LLP > Vice President(North),Indian Association of Structural Engineers, > Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers > H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor), > New Delhi-110060 > Ph:9811776210;01145128530 > > > From: suraj [mailto:forum@www.buonovino.com] > Sent: 14 May 2017 23:25 > To:econf@www.buonovino.com>主题:[E-CONF] Re: RERA法案(房地产Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications > > > > RERA Act is in force Now > > This Act is in force now > All such discussions should have been conducted, prior to this Act was approved > This Act falls short of requirements > This protects buyers & does not support buyers professionally > Buyers do not know, what they should do? > Act does not direct buyers how to protect their practical interests > Definition of Engineer is incomplete > Role of Engineer is undefined > Only one benefit has been earned that first time in national statute, Engineer definition has been included though defective > Structural engineer role is undefined > Engineer is structural engineer, but undefined > Now, Engineers are unable to make amendments to this law for it has been approved & notified & now enforce > Recommendations would not work for this is not a IS Code > Best solution is that first engineer should establish itself to do clashes with counter professionals > Engineers have proved to be worst community in this Nation > They are unable to fight for themselves > Only talking, writing & doing nothing else > Even, now Engineer are not serious for they have been used to beg other professional community > They shall never come up to professional level to fight & just confer for no gains at all > Engineers cannot understand law & their implications > Just conferring for sake of conferring is meaningless > Engineers are required to teach general public first, why engineer is required on such Real Estate projects > People do not know anything about all these issues > NOIDA has allowed 4 years, just to do balance of works > What senseless this decision is made? > 4 years count nothing > Engineers cannot fight for themselves & none else can fight for them > Just keep talking > Architects shall wash away engineers presence from this Act as well, for they are well organised & able to pool funds to go to courts > Engineers remain busy in calculations only & do not risk all courts petitions > I have very bad experience with Engineering community of Bharat > No free lunch is available anywhere!!! > > > > > --

Posted via Email

N. Prabhakar · General Sponsor Joined: 25 Apr 2009 Posts: 474

Dear Sefians,

I agree completely with the introductory remarks SEFI Admin Ms. Alpa Sheth has made on the subject of structural defects.

建议同行审查的结构design and drawings as mandatory is a good one as it avoids any mistake that could be made by the original designer in his/her structural analysis, assumptions, detail design and drawings. The cost of the peer review which is very small in the overall cost, has to be borne by the property developer/contractor in the interest of all.

Regarding insurance for structural consultants to cover professional indemnity, it is a costly business when one considers the low consultation fee the structural consultant gets these days.

As I said earlier in the other posting on RERA, the term 'Structural Defects' in RERA rules needs to be clearly defined as the common man has no understanding or different meanings of it.

In my opinion, this term should be restricted to displacement and cracking of structural elements like Slabs, Beams, Columns, Joints and Foundation beyond a permissible limit which could be spelt out in RERA rules. It should not include damages to non-structural elements like doors, windows, brick panel walls.

It is also the responsibility of the residents of the buildings in not misusing the building by way of making structural alterations, over loading the floors with heavy storage materials. The residents should also maintain the buildings properly and regularly, particularly with the leakage of roofs and drain pipes.

If the above matter is not properly defined in RERA rules, there would be unnecessary litigation with the property developer and the structural engineer.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208

SATYAPAUL · General Sponsor Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 127

when draft of RARA was being circulated.engineers should have pointed.in confirmation to RARA,An Engineer has greater responsibility compared to Architect and Chartered accountant.But now it is too late. regards satya pal On Mon, 15 May 2017 21:23:50 +0530 "N. Prabhakar" wrote > Dear Sefians, > > I agree completely with the introductory remarks SEFI Admin Ms. Alpa Sheth has made on the subject of structural defects. > > The suggestion to have peer review of structural design and drawings as mandatory is a good one as it avoids any mistake that could be made by the original designer in his/her structural analysis, assumptions, detail design and drawings. The cost of the peer review which is very small in the overall cost, has to be borne by the property developer/contractor in the interest of all. > > Regarding insurance for structural consultants to cover professional indemnity, it is a costly business when one considers the low consultation fee the structural consultant gets these days. > > As I said earlier in the other posting on RERA, the term 'Structural Defects' in RERA rules needs to be clearly defined as the common man has no understanding or different meanings of it. > > In my opinion, this term should be restricted to displacement and cracking of structural elements like Slabs, Beams, Columns, Joints and Foundation beyond a permissible limit which could be spelt out in RERA rules. It should not include damages to non-structural elements like doors, windows, brick panel walls. > > It is also the responsibility of the residents of the buildings in not misusing the building by way of making structural alterations, over loading the floors with heavy storage materials. The residents should also maintain the buildings properly and regularly, particularly with the leakage of roofs and drain pipes. > > If the above matter is not properly defined in RERA rules, there would be unnecessary litigation with the property developer and the structural engineer. > > With best wishes, > > N. Prabhakar > Chartered Structural Engineer > Vasai (E), Pin 401 208 > > > > --

Posted via Email

prashant_hadkar · SEFI Member Joined: 27 Jun 2016 Posts: 1

‎Mr N. Prabhakar,

Thanks for your valuable comments.

Prashant Hadkar

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From:N. Prabhakar
Sent:Monday 15 May 2017 21:24
To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Reply To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Subject:[E-CONF] Re: RERA Act (The Real Estate Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications

Dear Sefians,

I agree completely with the introductory remarks SEFI Admin Ms. Alpa Sheth has made on the subject of structural defects.

建议同行审查的结构design and drawings as mandatory is a good one as it avoids any mistake that could be made by the original designer in his/her structural analysis, assumptions, detail design and drawings. The cost of the peer review which is very small in the overall cost, has to be borne by the property developer/contractor in the interest of all.

Regarding insurance for structural consultants to cover professional indemnity, it is a costly business when one considers the low consultation fee the structural consultant gets these days.

As I said earlier in the other posting on RERA, the term 'Structural Defects' in RERA rules needs to be clearly defined as the common man has no understanding or different meanings of it.

In my opinion, this term should be restricted to displacement and cracking of structural elements like Slabs, Beams, Columns, Joints and Foundation beyond a permissible limit which could be spelt out in RERA rules. It should not include damages to non-structural elements like doors, windows, brick panel walls.

It is also the responsibility of the residents of the buildings in not misusing the building by way of making structural alterations, over loading the floors with heavy storage materials. The residents should also maintain the buildings properly and regularly, particularly with the leakage of roofs and drain pipes.

If the above matter is not properly defined in RERA rules, there would be unnecessary litigation with the property developer and the structural engineer.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208

Posted via Email

Dr. N. Subramanian

vijaya_vittal · ... Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 84

It is important to recognize structural engineering is an important profession for well being of society and to avoid accidental loss to the country. In this direction engineer's bill was moved without any progress. I understand that the engineers bill will not come through due to inherited lacuna and ambition to include all engineers. The civil engineers is small percentage compared to total engineers. Hence we must device separate strategy to elevate Civil engineers and call them as building engineers. The architect bill pushes building engineers to second grade who can not fight for the justice for the profession and also the society.

Regards.
H.N.Vijaya Vittal

From:N. Prabhakar
To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Sent:Monday, May 15, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject:[E-CONF] Re: RERA Act (The Real Estate Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications

# yiv7089302298 # yiv7089302298——# yiv7089302298 # yiv7089302298 body { background-color:#E5E5E5;font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:11;color:#000000;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 font, #yiv7089302298 th, #yiv7089302298 td, #yiv7089302298 p {font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;} #yiv7089302298 p, #yiv7089302298 td {font-size:11;color:#000000;} #yiv7089302298 a:link, #yiv7089302298 a:active, #yiv7089302298 a:visited {color:#006699;} #yiv7089302298 a:hover {text-decoration:underline;color:#DD6900;} #yiv7089302298 hr {height:0px;border:solid #D1D7DC 0px;border-top-width:1px;} #yiv7089302298 h1, #yiv7089302298 h2 {font-size:22px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;line-height:120%;color:#000000;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298bodyline {background-color:#FFFFFF;border:1px #FFFFFF solid;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298gen {font-size:12px;} #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298genmed {font-size:11px;} #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298gensmall {font-size:10px;line-height:12px;} #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298gen, #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298genmed, #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298gensmall {color:#000000;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298gen, #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298genmed, #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298gensmall {color:#006699;text-decoration:none;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298gen:hover, #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298genmed:hover, #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298gensmall:hover {color:#DD6900;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298forumlink {font-weight:bold;font-size:12px;color:#006699;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298forumlink {text-decoration:none;color:#006699;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298forumlink:hover{text-decoration:underline;color:#DD6900;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298postbody {font-size:12px;line-height:18px;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298postlink:link {text-decoration:none;color:#006699;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298postlink:visited {text-decoration:none;color:#5493B4;} #yiv7089302298 a.yiv7089302298postlink:hover {text-decoration:underline;color:#DD6900;} #yiv7089302298 #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298code { font-family:Courier,;font-size:11px;color:#006600;background-color:#FAFAFA;border:#D1D7DC;border-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;border-top-width:1px;border-right-width:1px;border-bottom-width:1px;} #yiv7089302298 .yiv7089302298quote { font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:11px;color:#444444;line-height:125%;background-color:#FAFAFA;border:#D1D7DC;border-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;border-top-width:1px;border-right-width:1px;border-bottom-width:1px;} #yiv7089302298 Dear Sefians, I agree completely with the introductory remarks SEFI Admin Ms. Alpa Sheth has made on the subject of structural defects. The suggestion to have peer review of structural design and drawings as mandatory is a good one as it avoids any mistake that could be made by the original designer in his/her structural analysis, assumptions, detail design and drawings. The cost of the peer review which is very small in the overall cost, has to be borne by the property developer/contractor in the interest of all. Regarding insurance for structural consultants to cover professional indemnity, it is a costly business when one considers the low consultation fee the structural consultant gets these days. As I said earlier in the other posting on RERA, the term 'Structural Defects' in RERA rules needs to be clearly defined as the common man has no understanding or different meanings of it. In my opinion, this term should be restricted to displacement and cracking of structural elements like Slabs, Beams, Columns, Joints and Foundation beyond a permissible limit which could be spelt out in RERA rules. It should not include damages to non-structural elements like doors, windows, brick panel walls. It is also the responsibility of the residents of the buildings in not misusing the building by way of making structural alterations, over loading the floors with heavy storage materials. The residents should also maintain the buildings properly and regularly, particularly with the leakage of roofs and drain pipes. If the above matter is not properly defined in RERA rules, there would be unnecessary litigation with the property developer and the structural engineer. With best wishes, N. Prabhakar Chartered Structural Engineer Vasai (E), Pin 401 208
--

Posted via Email

ajay2612 · SEFI Regulars Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 29

Very correct

From: "sangeeta_wij"forum@www.buonovino.com
Sent:Mon, 15 May 2017 17:43:36 +0530
To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: RERA Act (The Real Estate Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications
Dear Alpa

ajay2612 · SEFI Regulars Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 29

We Engineers are followers only.

From: "suraj"forum@www.buonovino.com
Sent:Mon, 15 May 2017 13:34:18 +0530
To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: RERA Act (The Real Estate Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications
RERA Act is in force Now

ajay2612 · SEFI Regulars Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 29

Association must fix some criteria on Fees and all members should abide by this. If advocate can charge in lacs for one visit why we cant.

From: "vijaya_vittal"forum@www.buonovino.com
Sent:Tue, 16 May 2017 11:06:20 +0530
To:econf@www.buonovino.com
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: RERA Act (The Real Estate Regulation and Development Act 2016) and its implications
It is important to recognize structural engineering is an important profession for well being of society and to avoid accidental loss to the country. In this direction engineer's bill was moved without any progress. I understand that the engineers bill will not come through due to inherited lacuna and ambition to include all engineers. The civil engineers is small percentage compared to total engineers. Hence we must device separate strategy to elevate Civil engineers and call them as building engineers. The architect bill pushes building engineers to second grade who can not fight for the justice for the profession and also the society.

Sudhakaran · Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:15 amPost subject:

Sir,
Builders, Architects, Engineers and labours etc. involved in the construction of the structure have much responsibility during construction.
Builders have to raise money and all other arrangements for construction.
Architect has to draw a pleasant model of the building for selling with high cost which will help the builders to increase the profit.
But Engineer is silent in building. He has no role in the profit in sale of building. But have role in the saving of material and is not noticed any where, here also silent.
His work is always hidden in the structure but he is responsible for the entire life of building. Builder�s and architect�s responsibility almost ends at the end of sale but the responsibility of the Engineer continues till the life of building.
Comparing these facts the most responsible person in the construction of the building is Engineer and he takes the top most roles. If any building collapsed the person responsible will be Structural Engineer. Since,the structural drawing speaks the hidden parts of the structure.

Hence, The Engineer must be treated as prime person in construction.

Best Regards,

Sudhakaran.