www.www.buonovino.com

[pradeep joshiaaa]

Dear Alpha,

In nut shell What RERA has done to Real Estate sector is that all non serious players are out of the Business now. Structural Engineers should also do such out of box idea. There should be a Pen Down Strike of Structural Consultants till the ENGINEERS BILL is passed and Structural Engineering is �recognized as a profession , Designing done by �Professional Certified Structural Engineers only. The issue of Fees , corruption & other issues that are hurting the profession will be resolved. Structural Engineers are not Business person or politician , we can get our voice heard only when we STOP working. Govt will come done on Knee and then will listen the grievances of the structural profession. Engineers Bill is the only Solution. RERA cannot save the honor or will bring honor to Structural Guys. Initiative should be taken by the Seniors.


Regards


Pradeep Joshi


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:01 PM, alpa_sheth forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dear Sangeeta,


I understand your exasperation. A lot of your concerns could be addressed if we had �competency based registration of structural engineers. RERA will not address any of the issues you raise. RERA has very little about �safety issues (other than financial protection to buyer) �embedded in it.�


虽然跑题,我将解决你的评论re. revised IS 1893 doing away with 2.5 times design lateral force option for open ground storey structures since I was part of the 3 member drafting group of this code. This clause was eliminated as we �felt that a stiffness deficiency cannot be made good by providing over-strength. We need to address a stiffness deficiency with compensatory additional stiffness.�


关于你的其他点,我们没有年代的原因ee too many three and four storey structures fail in moderate earthquakes despite having no seismic resistant features is that even though they may be designed as gravity RC frame structures with �infill masonry panels, if constructed well, ��they seem to have innate ability to perform similar to confined masonry structures - but only to a point.� They will show their deficiencies beyond �threshold earthquake shaking.� Thus �many thousands of three and four storey buildings in Ahmedabad survived �the Bhuj 2001 earthquake even though they were not designed for earthquakes but the same type of buildings did not survive in Bhachau and Bhuj where shaking intensity was many times more than in Ahmedabad.�


best regards,
Alpa�
�









On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:32 PM, sangeeta_wijforum@www.buonovino.com (forum@www.buonovino.com))> wrote:
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Posted via Email

[bijoyav]

Let me add my experience too. What I observed during construction of structure, whose design has been done in a proper way, is that, the concrete is not properly manufactures, reinforcement is not placed properly, aggregates are of proper sizes, flaky & elongated, shuttering is not made in line or level, plumb of column is not proper, absence of ductile reinforcement even though it is detailed well...

Can I go personally & check all there? The contractors, architects or builder do not give adequate importance to these aspect. Now a days, the workers are also careless in these aspects. When I started my career, the head of the worker often look into these thinks.

Bijoy AV

[muralimithun]

Dear Avinash,
How do you know people getting 3d models without consulting structural engineer.
On 18 May 2017 10:10 a.m., "Avinash_singh" forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:

[namdev_warade]

Dear Members,As an engineer, I expect and all our member should insist that a list of fees rates should be decided. RERA impose responsibilities on us but in market there is no standard fees as to what rate we should be charging the services.In fact, in a project everybody earns more than engineer and fairly enough all other service provider's fees are almost set and recognized by the people.�
An engineer is multi-tasker. He can provide services right from beginning i.e. planning engineer-structural engineer-supervisor- to occupancy. Unfortunately; engineers recognition is far less. Engineering community should rightly fight all these issue.
Otherwise less pay;high responsibility burden would only weaken engineering foundation. An engineer individually should also fight for self-respect and self recognition. thank you
Warade Namdev
MEcivil-structures
(works as planning engineer, structural engineer etc.)
��


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:10 PM, bijoyav forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:

[imteyaz_ahmad]

Dear Members,�
我已经注意到,我们都是分裂和there is no unity among practicing�structural engineers in India. It's true that�everybody should earn his bread, but there should be a sense of professionalism and fraternity. I am sorry to say but consultants here in India try to snatch work from others by charging�lesser and lesser amount per square feet from client and willing to do anything the architect wants them to, not even thinking once about structural safety and serviceability.�
In such a condition how can we think that on technical persons will ever respect our work? Or understand the importance of structural engineers when we ourselves are deteriorating our value.


The other thing is that seniors and pioneers in this industry are really not concerned about bringing any positive change or to get it recognized by masses. There is no mentorship or guidance to new comers. Even the technical lectures are organized on weekdays, which makes it impossible for any structural engineer working in a company to attend.


I have worked in India, Dubai�and Finland, and the major difference I found is that in those geographies they mentor, teach and pass on their knowledge. Apart from Structural engineering they also guide engineers for contracts, negotiations, FIDIC books etc. Here most HOD's or Owners will fear that they might have to face another competitor.


It is the need of hour that seniors/mentors try to convince government bodies to introduce a License to practice engineering, make it compulsory for all developers/clients to submit a design approved from licensed engineer, authority should demand approved drawings from contractors.



Regards,
Imteyaz
CEng - IStructE






On Sunday, 21 May 2017, namdev_warade forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dear Members,As an engineer, I expect and all our member should insist that a list of fees rates should be decided. RERA impose responsibilities on us but in market there is no standard fees as to what rate we should be charging the services.In fact, in a project everybody earns more than engineer and fairly enough all other service provider's fees are almost set and recognized by the people.�
An engineer is multi-tasker. He can provide services right from beginning i.e. planning engineer-structural engineer-supervisor- to occupancy. Unfortunately; engineers recognition is far less. Engineering community should rightly fight all these issue.
Otherwise less pay;high responsibility burden would only weaken engineering foundation. An engineer individually should also fight for self-respect and self recognition. thank you
Warade Namdev
MEcivil-structures
(works as planning engineer, structural engineer etc.)
��


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:10 PM, bijoyavforum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:
--auto removed--

Posted via Email

[tanpreet]

Dear Avinash Singh,

I have a very TOUCHY point of view... please bear with me...
i really appreciate that you are going to participate in helping real estate development in civil point of view..


But my point is that your enthusiastic approach would not help fresher engineers who are looking for job, as you know the scope of civil engineers now a days are going down, as i have a strong feeling that we should appoint numerous well qualified smart civil engineers so that they can earn and serve for the nation without affecting your approach (real estate Development) ..�


The same thing "GURBANI" tell us DASWAND System, we must contribute 1/10 income for poor (freshers or struggling) people so that they can give blessings..�


Please look into this matter and reply me with your valuable words..�

Posted via Email

[dipak_bhattacharya]

Dear Imteyaz,

I do not know what your Indian experience is. After working for 10 years in Private Ltd Cos' environments after my retirement, I noticed that owners recruit the cheapest Engineering personnels and keep them under an experienced engineer and make the later's life miserable.After getting a job the young hands always remain in the lookout of a better salaried jobs; as soon as they are really deliverable, they leave immediately!
What is your experience and knowledge on this aspect in other countries?


On 23 May 2017 at 09:57, tanpreet forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:

[sudarshanmalchapure049@gm]

Dear SirIt is actually a great thought towards the awareness, safety and economical construction which each and every Structural Design Engineer should be part off.


Sudarshan
M.tech (CSE)


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:39 PM, Avinash_singh forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:

[suraj]

Agree with you
Our engineers do not like to know about contracts, relevant laws, FIDIC, NEC etc.
They only know FEM & stresses
They can not be convinced at all
They cannot support themselves to fight & establish professional practice
They do not respect their professional registrations
They are ready to submit to illegal registrations arbitrary done by Local bodies

[quote="imteyaz_ahmad"]Dear Members,
我已经注意到,我们都是分裂和there is no unity among practicing structural engineers in India. It's true that everybody should earn his bread, but there should be a sense of professionalism and fraternity. I am sorry to say but consultants here in India try to snatch work from others by charging lesser and lesser amount per square feet from client and willing to do anything the architect wants them to, not even thinking once about structural safety and serviceability.
In such a condition how can we think that on technical persons will ever respect our work? Or understand the importance of structural engineers when we ourselves are deteriorating our value.


The other thing is that seniors and pioneers in this industry are really not concerned about bringing any positive change or to get it recognized by masses. There is no mentorship or guidance to new comers. Even the technical lectures are organized on weekdays, which makes it impossible for any structural engineer working in a company to attend.


I have worked in India, Dubai and Finland, and the major difference I found is that in those geographies they mentor, teach and pass on their knowledge. Apart from Structural engineering they also guide engineers for contracts, negotiations, FIDIC books etc. Here most HOD's or Owners will fear that they might have to face another competitor.


It is the need of hour that seniors/mentors try to convince government bodies to introduce a License to practice engineering, make it compulsory for all developers/clients to submit a design approved from licensed engineer, authority should demand approved drawings from contractors.



Regards,
Imteyaz
CEng - IStructE






On Sunday, 21 May 2017, namdev_warade wrote:

[imteyaz_ahmad]

Dear Dipak Bhattacharya Sir,

Certainly you have much more experience in engineering and management. I agree with your words that company in order to make more profit hire cheap engineering professionals (Certainly not from reputed institutes) and these engineers have little knowledge of structural physics, they are always relying on softwares for analysis and design.�
I have seen engineers removing columns to make span twice and increasing reinforcement to twice of the previous value, or just providing a number of floating columns without even thinking about stability of building just to make architect happy.
Ofcourse Salary is important factor for motivation for work, and this is true for any part of world, another important factor is Work and environmental factors. So as long as they have a belief that they are being recognized, awarded, mentored (technical and managerial both) they are not going to leave, or if they will come back to you.�


My suggestion was to encourage Structural Engineers to have a fair understanding of contracts, negotiations and FIDIC (Red Book, Risk allocations etc.) and not just to make them a calculator. There is a mass of engineers who have not even heard of FIDIC books.


I do not know much about clauses and terms of contracts that Structural Consultancies in India use. As per my understanding of RERA, they are promoting to have a PMC, either in-house or Consultant for every said project.�
Structural Engineers/Consultancies can add a clause for Construction Administration/Supervision( if it is not there yet and ofcourse make it chargeable), unless the part/area/floor in construction is checked and approved by engineers, do not certify further withdrawal of money from your end, which is required by RERA. You might face some heat, but will earn respect and recognition in long term.


Since a certain amount of project will be always there in a bank account, and it will be used for that only project, so engineers do not have to worry about their fee, engineers can always hold drawing/design documents in case of non-payment.


该法案也谈到结构缺陷和defect on workmanship, this clause should be used by consultancies to bind developer in a contract to have a Engineering Supervisor at the site as a full time employee till the structural work is finished. This man should have sufficient experience and should be given an authority over Site personnels. Also PMC should be advised to have a peer review of projects.


Organizations like IEI, IAStructE can join hands with NGO's EWB or some government body to educate people about safety of structures, such as a public awareness camp on engineers day, or twice a year.�
Also under leadership of IAStructE and IEI, we should discuss why Structural Engineering is not a recognized profession, its not only about buildings, there are lot more of structures which effects day to day life of people. We have seen a bridge failure in Goa last week.�
If COA can get there profession recognized, i am sure Structural Engineers can too, if they will to and unite.


Lastly i would like to say that if we do not respect our profession, then nobody will respect us.











On 23 May 2017 at 17:09, dipak_bhattacharya forum@www.buonovino.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dear Imteyaz,

I do not know what your Indian experience is. After working for 10 years in Private Ltd Cos' environments after my retirement, I noticed that owners recruit the cheapest Engineering personnels and keep them under an experienced engineer and make the later's life miserable.After getting a job the young hands always remain in the lookout of a better salaried jobs; as soon as they are really deliverable, they leave immediately!
What is your experience and knowledge on this aspect in other countries?


On 23 May 2017 at 09:57, tanpreetforum@www.buonovino.com (forum@www.buonovino.com))> wrote:
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