www.www.buonovino.com

[Dr. N. Subramanian]

Dear Mr.Sharma,

我很高兴你为工程师s bill and I am sorry that someone else spoiled it. It once again proves that Engineers are against Engineers. We do not have unity and we do not work for the common cause. That is why we, design engineers, are exploited by Architects and owners and sometimes by even contractors. Even Barbers have a strong association and raise their fee often. But we do not have any privileges in India. The Political fellows will not anything unless they get something in return. It is a Pity that Engineering does not have any recognition though Lawyers, Doctors, CAs and Architects have recognition!

Regards,
Subramanian

-------------------------
Message From aksharmacpwd[AT]yah...
Subject: Institution of engineers
Date: 08/12/05
Time: 00:31:32
-------------------------
Dear Sefians,
May I inform that on behalf of CPWD, I was given the mandate on
31-1-2001 soon after the Gujarat EQ to draft the Engineers Bill by the
Hon'ble Minister of Urban Development (Shri Jagmohan ji) through Shri
Krishan Kumar, Director General(Works), CPWD. The story of its fate is as
under:
1. The first draft of the Engineers Bill was prepared with
Institution of Engineers(India) as the regulatory statutory institution as it has
naturally all inbuilt functions to regulate the engineering profession
for the last more than 7 decades.
2. This draft was carried by the DGW, CPWD and myself in meeting held
in the room of Hon'ble Minister on 14-2-2001. But the scene was
hijacked by Prof. Ashoka Chandra, Addl Secy of Ministry of HRD (founder of
ENGINEERS COUNCIL OF INDIA as post retirement institution for his own
rehabilitation) with the remarks that Engineers bill is not needed as the
profession could be regulated by invoking Section 10(1) (L) of AICTE
Act and thus the the subject matter of engineers bill was got transferred
from Ministry of Urban Development to HRD Ministry.
3. The news item was also published in Hindustan Times of 22-2-2001
and doubts of coming up of Engineers Bill thru Ministry of HRD were
expressed by the print media.
4. Meeting was called on 28-3-2001 by Engineers Council of India (a
society registered under the Societies Act) chaired by Prof Ashok
Chandra in the very premises of Institution of Engineers(India) at New Delhi
on regulating the engineering profession under the banner of Engineers
Council of India wherein most of the professional engineering bodies
were also invited including IE(I) [Shri H P Jamdar was present on behalf
of IE(I)]
5. In fact, by this time our draft legislation i.e. 'The Engineers
Bill' was already completed along with the 'Rules' for its implementation
but I was asked by the DG(W) not to share the work done by CPWD and I
was directed to only observe the proceedings. Hence progress made by
CPWD was not shared with those attendees in that meeting except Mr Jamdar.
Shri Jamdar was invited by me to Nirman Bhawan to view its Power Point
Presentation on my desktop. But Mr Jamdar, who was Secretary(PWD),
Gujarat never got time despite my reminding him over phone when I was in
Ahmedabad in July 2001
6. However, in the meeting on 28-3-2001, the option of AICTE route of
regulating engineering profession was totally negated and a separate
bill was proposed. A drafting committee was proposed to be constituted
with a mandate of 6 months as the time limit.
7. Since then The Engineers Bill prepared by CPWD thru me with pivotal
role of Institution of Engineers (India) did not see the light of day
due to internal politics of engineers and engineering community to which
the top office bearers of IE(I) are also to be blamed.
8. It is pertinent to state that based on this work, I did my
dessetation in 2003 titled "Disaster Mitigation by Regulating Engineering
Profession--A Legislative Framework" with 'Indian Institute of Public
Administration, New Delhi (IIPA)'. The copy of which is available in IIPA
Library. The drafted legislation complete with Rules is as its Annexure.
9. Also an article titled as above was published (page 285-295 of
proceedings) and presented in the "World Congress on Natural Disaster
Mitigation" 19-22 February 2004 at New Delhi, India, which also gives the
salient features of the Engineers Bill as drafted with IE(I) to have
pivotal role in regulating engineering profession.
10. If agreed by the SEFI, the finalised draft "The Engineers Bill"
and also its Power Point Presentation could be posted on the SEFI Home
Page for others to have its scrutiny and if desired it could be
considered with pivotal role IE(I) could take over to regulate engineering
profession.

These bare facts, I felt like sharing with Sefians. This outburst
before public is for the first time from my side.

With regards to all

Yours
Anil K Sharma

Dr.N.Subramanian,Ph.D.,F.ASCE, M.ACI,FIE,P.E.,
Chief Executive, Computer Design Consultants,
email:drnsmani[AT]yah...

Posted via Email

[sdec.in]

Dear Mr Subramanian
We are most of us members of IEI and really find nothing against it ...only
that it appears to be fighting it out against ECI which has been instituted
by the Govt to darry out the function of Licensing of Engineers and to
regulate and monitor the profession..thus helping it to grow at par with
professional in other countries....dont u think its IEI whos fighting it
against its own fellows' interests..but for its persistance we perhaps would
have had a BILL by now...well this is how I personally feel and its not
intended otherwise.....
regards
sangeeta wij----- Original Message -----
Message From
To:
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: Engineers Bill

[dr_rao at nagadi.co.in]

I have scrupulously and meticulously gone through all correspondence on this subject.
I have been associated with this subject since the first draft was drawn by Mr.Dhawarkar. On behalf of ACE( Which later became CEAI) I had discussed with SriK.C.Pant, who spent more than four hours studying and discussing almost every paragraph so that if the bill goes to the parliament, the politicians should be able to appreciate it. Everything is now buried.
I have discussed with three very senior supremecourt advocates who are handling construction contracts legal cases.

Without going to all details, my final conclusions are:
1. The IEI certification is recognized all over the world, not only in construction related cases, but also in admission to foreign universities. This has been going on for over 50 years.
2. The parliament has the right to pass an engineers' bill which can become a law. This will have to be followed in all works in India. Other countries may recognize it. After monitoring how the architects' bill is being misused, as there are many gray areas in the bill, I am very skeptical about the effectiveness of a bill passed by politicians.
3. The entire process has been hijacked by retiring beaurocrats and technocrats, as a CPWD member has pointed out.
4. I am convinced that the beaurocracy in India will not allow any registration of PEs. They wish to keep all controls in their hands. We engineers are not united.
5. ECI is a loose federation of some engg.societies. It has no legal status and no democratic parliament would accept a limited private forum's proposal.
Hence, we should accept IEI's registration,and support and strengthen it. The IEI should become a matter of prestige for us all. WE should strengthen and improve its functioning as well as its effectiveness.
Dr.V.V.S.Rao.

Dr. V.V.S. Rao "TAKE CARE OF MOTHER EARTH TO TAKE CARE OF YOU"
Chief Consultant
NAGADI CONSULTANTS PVT LTD
Geotechnical Consultants
E-mail: dr_rao[AT]nag...
Website:www.nagadi.co.in

DELHI: 106/1D, Kishangarh, Vasant Kunj, New Delhi-110070. Tel: +91-11-26891972, 26891980. Fax: +91-11-26897403.
CHENNAI: 61C, East Coast Road, Tiruvanmiyur, Chennai-600041. Tel: +91-44-24483948. Fax: +91-44-24928957.
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Posted via Email

[ibarua]

10 December 2005

Yes, architects have recognition via the Architects Act, but it has done little for the profession as a whole. Even architects undercut each other in the matter of fees. The Architects' (Professional Conduct) Regulations are more honoured in their breach rather than in their observance. This is the reason why I do not have much hope for the Engineers' bill. The only way out is for the profession to regulate itself -- and that means self-discipline from every one of us in the profession. I of course exclude government employed engineers from my definition of 'profession'. They have their own way of doing things, for their own good.

Indrajit Barua.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 drnsmani[AT]yah... wrote :
[quote]Dear Mr.Sharma,

我很高兴你为工程师s
bill and I am sorry that someone else spoiled it. It
once again proves that Engineers are against Engineers.
We do not have unity and we do not work for the common
cause. That is why we, design engineers, are exploited
by Architects and owners and sometimes by even
contractors. Even Barbers have a strong association and
raise their fee often. But we do not have any
privileges in India. The Political fellows will not
anything unless they get something in return. It is a
Pity that Engineering does not have any recognition
though Lawyers, Doctors, CAs and Architects have
recognition!

Regards,
Subramanian

----------------------
----
Message From aksharmacpwd[AT]yah...
Subject: Institution of engineers
Date: 08/12/05
Time: 00:31:32
------------------------

Posted via Email